All About Flying with Your Dog

Welcome back to The Pilot’s Logbook - a podcast companion for private pilots in the UK and Europe.

Have you ever dreamed of sharing the skies with your dog? In this episode, we chat with commercial French pilot Antoine Gallet, who has mastered the art of flying with his whippet, Lilou.

Join us as we discuss:

• The incredible bond that comes from adventuring with your pet.
• The practical challenges of flying with a dog in the cockpit and how to solve them.
• Crucial safety considerations, from harnesses to planning, to keep your pet safe.
• How Antoine’s experience can help you prepare for your own flights with your pet.

In this episode, we also cover:

• Pilot's Tip of the Day presented by Echelon Air: Philippe Polman shares with you a way to make your flights less stressful.
• "Ask Amanda!": Amanda Rhodes, a NATS Air Traffic Controller, answers our listeners' questions and shares valuable tips. 

Links and Resources:

• Antoine & Lilou's Instagram 

Cirrus SR22 G7+ Shares - hello@echelonair.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:41 Ask Amanda
• 4:43 Tip of the day by Echelon Air
• 6:56 All About Flying with your Dog
• 52:24 Links and Resources

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Welcome back to The Pilot's Logbook, a podcast companion for private pilots in the UK and Europe. Each episode is packed with practical tips, inspiring chats with pilots and members of our community, gear reviews, and the latest aviation news that are relevant to us. And we'll reveal exciting destinations you can fly directly to. Whether you're a seasoned aviator or just starting your journey, we hope you find our show as informative as inspirational. I'm Joy, your co-pilot for The Pilot's Logbook. And

SPEAKER_03: 0:31

I'm Fernando, your host and fellow pilot.

SPEAKER_05: 0:34

Hello, I'm Antoine, alongside my dog, Lilo. In today's show, I'll tell you all about flying with your dog, a nine-person experience flying with my lovely Wipette.

SPEAKER_03: 0:45

Hi everyone and welcome back to the podcast. And yes, I know it's been a little while, so thank you for sticking around and tuning back in. The truth is I've been grounded by textbooks. I've been deep in the theory portion of my instrument rating, tackling those seven lovely exams. But the good news is I've come out the other side and it feels fantastic to be back here talking with you. Anyway, enough about my background. It's summer 2025 and hopefully you are flying a lot with your friends and family. In today's show, we have a really fascinating guest who will tell you all about flying with your dog. But before that, we have the most friendly air traffic controller in the land, Amanda Rhodes, and the pilot's tip of the day with the inspiring Philip Pullman. All right, let's get started.

SPEAKER_00: 1:44

Ask Amanda. Hello, everybody. Amanda here. So something that I wanted to mention is something that I've noticed happening a lot more frequently. This isn't just specific to GA aircraft. I've also noticed it with inbound and outbound traffic as well. So when you select a frequency for the first time, you've dialed up that frequency. Listen. Give it a few seconds and listen. Listen to what's going on on that frequency and think to yourself, if I transmit now, is my transmission going to interfere with anything else that is currently going on on that frequency? For example, the controller may have issued a descent instruction in the Q&H and they will be waiting for the other aircraft to read that back. If you inadvertently transmit between the controller issuing an instruction, and the aircraft reading it back, please don't worry if the controller does not acknowledge you. A few things could happen in this situation. So the controller may not acknowledge you, but they will wait for the other aircraft to read back the instruction they've given. Or the controller may acknowledge you with the phraseology station calling, standby, break, break, which means I hear you. I acknowledge you. I've asked you to stand by. And the break, break means I'm now going to go and speak to another aircraft and potentially reiterate the clearance to ensure that I get a full readback. When the controller has the readback that they require, they may then address you with the phraseology station calling, who is advised to stand by, pass your message. Please do not worry if this happens to you and you do not get acknowledged immediately. The control has priorities, they've given instructions, they need readbacks. So my best advice when selecting a frequency for the first time is listen. I appreciate it sounds really simple, but it is easily done. Should you accidentally transmit at the same time as another aircraft or another station, you may also hear the phraseology blocked. There There have been times when I've transmitted at the same time as another station and I haven't heard the second transmission, but aircraft on my frequency have come back and just said blocked. Therefore, that's my cue to reiterate my last instruction. I hope that's helped. So when changing frequency, give it a few seconds. Listen out.

UNKNOWN: 4:19

Music

SPEAKER_03: 4:20

Thank you Amanda for your tip and I confess I didn't know about the term blocked. If you've got any questions for Amanda or anything you've always wondered about air traffic control, please send them our way. In your podcast app in this episode, you will find a link that says send a text. Select that option and send your questions. And now here's the great Philip Pullman with a piece of advice that I found really helpful to make your flight It's less stressful.

SPEAKER_02: 4:52

Pilot's Tip of the Day, presented by Echelon Air.

SPEAKER_01: 4:56

Don't be afraid to be a foreigner in a foreign land. Same goes for landing at an airport for the first time. It's okay if you don't know where your parking stand is or where the Charlie desk is or the exit or how to get a taxi. The general aviation community is friendlier than we give it credit for. And no matter where you are, if you embrace the unknown, someone is sure to give you a helping hand. Same goes for asking air traffic control for some assistance. You're not quite sure how to join the traffic pattern or what different levels of service are available from ATC. It's okay to ask. We can't know the norms in every country in the world. They're not all the same. Looking like or embracing your inner tourist has some big-time advantages. You'll be more easily forgiven for making a mistake, be that with the local language, local procedure, or custom, or something else. You're less likely to miss something worth seeing, and you'll make more friends and meet interesting people, aviators or otherwise. You may even clock up a new aviation experience. My first ride in a helicopter happened when I was lost trying to find the exit of an airport. And most of importantly, if you're expecting to make some local faux pas, when you do, it's generally not that big of a deal. But remember, when it comes to flying into that airport for the first time, a little forward planning can go a long way and always make the safest decision, whether you're a local or not.

SPEAKER_04: 6:56

So

SPEAKER_02: 7:02

Our guest today is Antoine Guilly, a pilot from France who has found a wonderful way to combine his love for flying with his devotion to his dog, a whippet named Lilou. Professionally, Antoine is an airline pilot, but on his days off, he's often flying a Cirrus. And when he does, Lilou is always right there in the co-pilot's seat with him. You may have seen his photos and videos online. They adventure across Europe together, but what really comes through is the incredible bond Antoine shares with his flights have certainly inspired pilots like us to think about the joys and challenges of bringing our own pets along and a big reason we wanted to talk to him is his focus on safety he's figured out how to do this the right way today Antoine is here to share what he's learned and tell us how we can do it too

SPEAKER_03: 7:54

Antoine Gallet it's fantastic to have you on the show thank you very much thank you very much for having me Fernando thank you I know you is just landed in Shanghai. So thank you for taking the time for our chat. I know it's quite late there too. Yeah, it is, but yes. So Antoine, for a few years now, I've been planning and dreaming of taking my own dog on my flying trips with me, sat either on, besides on the cockpit or on the passenger seat in the back. But between airfield restrictions regulations and safety concerns, I always found a reason to postpone those plans. And then one day I was browsing Instagram and I found one of your posts. And for our listeners that probably never saw your account before, there are plenty of videos and photos of you flying with your dog, Lilu, a weeper. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 9:04

Thanks.

SPEAKER_03: 9:04

And I must say, Antoine, your posts are very inspiring. You fly with her pretty much all the time, either on a Cirrus or a Cessna that you usually rent in France. That's right. So they don't just show beautiful places that you take Leeloo, but mostly important, they show the connection that you both have with each other. So today I... want to help our listeners to take a step forward and learn all about flying with their dogs, helped by someone like you that has done it extensively for a long period of time and has a lot of experience in that area. So thank you again for helping us navigate that process. Now, before we start, we have a tradition on the show where we start things off with with a quick fire round of questions. So nothing to be worried about. So the rules are a bit strict. You can only answer with a yes, a no, or if you really have to, you can give a one short sentence answer. You ready? Okay, I am ready. Very good. Let's go. Yes or no. Are you ever concerned that your dog might interfere with the flight controls? No. Do you believe that just any dog, can be a good passenger? No. Have you ever had to plan for an emergency landing with your dog in mind? Yes. Was your dog completely calm and relaxed on her very first flight?

SPEAKER_05: 10:50

Yes, I guess.

SPEAKER_03: 10:52

Did you have to do any special training with Lilou before her first flight? No. Is it true that there are almost no regulations when flying with a dog in a private aircraft? Yes. That's true. And we are done. Thank you very much. We have quite a lot to unpack there and we'll circle back to those questions in a moment. But first, Antoine, please satisfy my curiosity. How did LILU come into your life and in which circumstances did the idea of flying together first occur to you?

SPEAKER_05: 11:31

That's a great question. So LILU came in my life four years ago. I had to lead her with my ex-partner, so she decided to take a whippet. And at the time we had Jack Russell's, so I was against taking a whippet. I was like, oh, I'm not sure they're cuddly. I don't really know if it's for us. But anyway, she decided to take it on and it's the best thing she's ever done. She's honestly been the best dog and that's how she came in our life. Into the flying beat, I've always been so... Obviously I fly for work, but I've... it's a big passion for me. So I've always kept flying aside of work on smaller airplanes. And in my life, we came to a point where I now have to look after Lilou on my own. So I think, you know, to look after a dog on your own is quite a lot. Not a worry, but it's, you know, you constantly have to be here. So it means it restricts you to what you can be doing. Now, I love flying and something came up to my mind being like, well, hang on a with you flying in a small plane. So that's really how it came in my mind. And the idea when I fly small planes, it's not just the flying, it's going places, going, you know, we've got beautiful places in France. There's also beautiful places in the UK, but it's a bit more tricky to fly with your dog in the UK. So this is how it all started.

SPEAKER_03: 12:56

What were your initial thoughts or concerns about bringing Lilou into the cockpit of a private aircraft? And how did you... Well,

SPEAKER_05: 13:08

as you probably know, and I'm sure that, you know, as people listening to this podcast are aware, aviation is a very regulated, you know, and very safety orientated business, I should say. And being a professional pilot as well, this is the first thing that came to my mind is, is LILU going to be safe? Am I going to be safe? And is the safety of, well, will the safety of the flight be impacted by LILU? So first thing was, right, Lilou, how is she going to cope? Noise, pressure, turbulence, is she going to be okay? So I did a lot of research online about how to fly with your dog. But funnily enough, there's not a lot on here going on. So I looked on social medias and I found this company in the US that flies rescue dog all around using a single engine plane. Now they've got bigger planes now, but that's how they started. So I got in touch with them and they They helped me a lot. For example, they told me about the pressure. So they reckon a maximum of, it's pretty much like a human, but they advise me to not go above 8,000 feet. Now, having done a bit more research, I know some people that fly a lot higher with their dogs because apparently dogs are not as sensitive as humans to lack of oxygen. But that's what I do now. I stick to 8,000 feet or very occasionally with, you know, if if I need to get higher for a short period of time, I will be doing it, but not, not too long. Uh, then the noise was an issue as well. Cause as you probably know, single engine planes are quite noisy. So I met people that fly with their dogs. There's actually quite a lot of people flying with their dogs. And that's, that's the surprising things that I found when I was doing my research thinking I'm going to be the only one doing it. And people are going to probably be a bit funny about it, but actually there's a lot of people doing it because, your dog is part of your family, so you won't be taking your dog with you. So the noise, there's different companies doing headsets specialised in dogs, and I had the best piece of advice from a company in the US. They said to me, start your engine, it will be a bit noisy, and then position the headset so your dog will be associated with noise reduction, so it's calming, and hopefully your dog will tolerate the headset, and this is what Lilo's done. I was worried she would push it off or something but she doesn't. She just stick it on and it's not a problem.

SPEAKER_03: 15:40

So that's a very good tip that you expose your dog first. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05: 15:48

Just a simple thing. So there we are. Then obviously a dog can be unpredictable. So when you said, do you think any dog can fly? Probably not. But again, every dogs are different. So it probably depends. But my main concern was having Lilou secured in the fly deck. and that she wouldn't interfere with any flight controls. So that was pretty easy for me because Elilou has a harness and just like in a car, when I travel with her in a car, she's got a seatbelt. So the seatbelt is quite tight and you can adapt it on the aeroplane and she's just trapped in when she needs to be. In the cruise, if she wants to go in the back or something, just like in a car, if there's no turbulence or anything, she can. But most of it was the flight controls. So I'm lucky to fly on the Cirrus and the Cirrus works out quite well. There's quite a lot of space. It's very unlikely she would interfere with the controls. And again, Leeloo being a very good dog, very gentle, she just sits and that's all she does. She sleeps. Every now and then she'd stand up and look outside of the window, but that's about it. So, so yes, but that's one of the concerns. So I think it depends if you, if you, I had dogs before that were a bit wild and I think it wouldn't be, you know, probably be best, you know, like if she starts jumping around and stuff, you know, it probably wouldn't be ideal. But I think as long as your dog is calm and can be secure in case of turbulence, can be strapped in, I guess it's just like flying with a baby or a kid, a young kid that wouldn't want to be touching around you. That makes sense. But that's the main. Now, the last concern I had was myself because I worry about a lot for my dog. So I didn't want my dog to distract me. So I was like, right, imagine if she starts being in a whale, you are going to be distracted and you're on your own in the airplane. So that's not good. So what I did is I did short flight with someone at the beginning, like very short flight, just going for like 10, 15 minutes to see how Lili was coping and someone could help me if there was a problem. I was lucky that she was fine. She was absolutely fine. I was feeding her heart, all of that. making sure she was happy and it was fine. And that's how we started doing longer trips. She's okay. I have done long trips with her. In fact, I'm flying to Corsica next week with her. So that's going to be three hours in a bit. And that's the longest I do because I think that's quite a lot. So that's what I do. And then last consideration I had that I think you've mentioned was little safety on the apron. So like, you know, on airfield and stuff so again i think that's pretty pretty basic most most elf people accept dogs but i make sure she's properly um you know like of course she's on the lead but not only just being on the lead you know i'll make sure that that lady's not gonna sleep out of my hand or something because you know she could go and chase something a hare or anything so it very much depends uh but again she's a very good dog so she's never you know done anything like this

SPEAKER_03: 19:05

fantastic yeah there we are to some extent to some extent you were quite should I say lucky by the fact that she was always fairly calm on the plane and kind of made it easier yes 100%

SPEAKER_05: 20:45

100% and I did think initially to have her in so that's probably something I didn't mention but when I flight mostly on my own so I said okay am I going to you know put her in the hold of the airplane I don't do that in my car so I'm like there's no way she's going to accept that shall she go on the back seat She did a few flights in the back seat, but what she prefers is being with me in the front, you know, on the right seat. She's got more room. And then, you know, in cruise, I can also like make sure she's okay. She just lays. Sometimes she'd lay her head. She doesn't, you know, she doesn't really know that here is the controls or something. So she lays where she wants. But again, the series being quite big, there's no issue with that whatsoever.

SPEAKER_03: 21:33

Can you walk us through your typical pre-flight checklist when when lilu is your co-pilot in this particular example

SPEAKER_05: 21:43

so that's

SPEAKER_03: 21:44

what you do differently yeah

SPEAKER_05: 21:46

yeah well what you do differently what you have to manage a dog around your airplane or in your airplane so one tip i'm going to give to you is if you leave your dog in the airplane make sure you say put the foot away from her because i've done the walk around before and lilu's been in the plane and calmly, passionately waiting for me, but actually she was stealing some food in the back. So that's just one of the tips I'd give you. But no, on a more serious note, it's all about having your dog secure and that you're very much like when you've got friends around, you know, that they wouldn't be interfering with your pre-flight checks, with your walk around or something. So if it's really hot weather, she would, depends where we depart, but if I can leave her in a secure area you know, like in the hangar or something where I know she's safe and she can sit, I leave her here. If it's not too hot, I just leave her in the plane. So I set, you know, set her seat up and she goes in the plane and I just do my walk around, my checks and everything. And then I just jump in and start the engine with her. But yes, it's just managing her. But again, she's a very good dog. So if she sits in the plane, she just takes her seat, nap while I do all my pre-flights and walk arounds and then we go from there

SPEAKER_03: 23:06

do you have a particular routine like an exercise routine or a feeding or a creation

SPEAKER_05: 23:12

yes absolutely so before every flight obviously it depends on the flight but if it's a flight where we're going somewhere it's basically like traveling your dog in your car so i make sure she has a walk before i make sure she's got some food her breakfast or whatever then we go for a walk so she can do our basic needs if that makes sense have a a wee or something. Make sure she's got water. But Lilo doesn't drink a lot. So I sometimes get annoyed being like, right, have a drink, please. And she doesn't.

SPEAKER_03: 23:44

But as

SPEAKER_05: 23:44

long as she

SPEAKER_03: 23:44

wet the whistle, she's absolutely fine. I've noticed you use one of those dog bottles that have like a device where you can just place the water and she can drink without the ball. Is that correct? Is that what you use?

SPEAKER_05: 23:58

Yeah, that's right. So I was about to say that's what I... I always find... fly with treats I give her treats for two reasons first of all because it's nice and she likes it but second of all I've been discussing this with a vet and because she would be swallowing and she you know like she'd be chewing while you descend very much like you for your ears you know if your ears are popping

SPEAKER_03: 24:23

a bit that would help the pressure

SPEAKER_05: 24:25

so I've yes so that's what I've always used but I'll go back on the pressure thing a bit later but that's something else you can be careful

SPEAKER_03: 24:34

Fernando from the future here. I'm just pausing the chat with Antoine because the conversation went so well that we ended up forgetting to come back and talk about pressure. So Antoine asked me to mention to you that if you are flying with your dog, he doesn't recommend any change in flight level or altitude of over 500 feet per minute. Okay, let's go back to our chat.

SPEAKER_05: 24:58

it's just basically basic descent planning but uh i'll go back to it but yes i've got the water bottle with me all the time so i'm sure every dog owner i've heard about this this bottle you know it's basically a bottle where you can you can fill it up and then you can squeeze it and water would come out like in a small bowl and she can just have a drink and then you can put the water back in again just want to be careful you know that you don't speed anything on your instruments or or or you know electronics in the plane or anything but it's just like you having a coffee or a drink and That's just what you would do. So that's the routine we have. Just a quick walk, make sure she's been walked, make sure she's done a quick wee, had a bit of food and she's happy and off we go.

SPEAKER_03: 25:41

Very good. I've noticed on your Instagram account and the photos and videos you post that her seat is probably as good as an Air France first-class seat because you prepare it with every single piece of equipment to make it as comfortable for her as possible. Do you have any particular recommendations in terms of preparing the seat, regardless of if it is the co-pilot seat or the passenger your seats in the back. Do you have any particular suggestions to our listeners?

SPEAKER_05: 26:16

What I would say is whatever your dog is happy with. So now she's very much set up. She always has a little blanket. She's got a pillow. Sometimes I bring her a toy or something, but she doesn't really care about the toy, so I don't bring it anymore. But when I started flying, I used to bring her a little basket. I've tried different options. Whatever she's comfortable in. And I like having a small blanket because sometimes it gets cold, so I can wrap it in the blanket and being a whippet, sorry, they love to be, you know, all tucked in. So this is, yeah,

SPEAKER_03: 26:49

this is what I do. Many listeners might be curious. Have you ever had a situation where Lilou's presence, perhaps through unexpected moments of curiosity, came close to interfering with the flight controls or distracting you at a critical moment? How do you mitigate such risks?

SPEAKER_05: 27:10

It's something you train for. When you're in a critical phase and something comes to disturb you, that's when you need to know your priorities, fly, nav, communicate. if that makes sense. So it's very much like, to be honest with you, Fernando, I think it's actually easier to fly with Dilu than flying with some friends because your friends are always like, oh, look at that on the right. And you know, they've got no clue of where you are and what phase you're in. So I agree with you. Well, I just think it's safer because Dilu will never come close to controls or anything. The only thing that she could on the Cirrus, if she rests her head on the sort of the pedestal or a little head could come close to the power lever or something. Or the mixer control, yes. Or the mixer control. But Lilo is very gentle, so she wouldn't pull anything or something. And I just gently, you know, pushes her head or something. And I've got my hand there to sort of restrict her from going here. But it's not like an aggressive thing of she would go. So I think, if anything, you're more likely as a pilot, you know, they talk about these action slips where you touch... control you didn't intend on touching so I think you're it's you know it's where the error is more likely to come now in terms of a time when I sort of was distracted I came in once we flew back from Brittany and we came back into Paris and there was quite a lot of wind forecasts but nothing unsafe or serious and we came down and on the 80s it was reporting strong turbulence and wind shear and final, which was a bit interesting. But anyway, I thought, okay, call the tower on VHF2. Planes were landing. No one was going around. They were reporting a bit of turbulence and stuff. So I said, okay, I'll do an approach, see how it gets on. And if it's too complicated, I'll divert to another airfield. But anyway, as we came in, it was quite rough. Well, we had rough turbulence as we came in. And what I was actually distracted by was not Lilou, but by myself, if that makes sense, because I was worried about Lilou. So I sort of distracted myself by being like, well, is she okay? Is she okay? So I looked at her quite a lot, make sure, you know, like touching her heart, but actually she did not care whatsoever. And the one that was actually going to vomit was probably me and not her. So that's when I realised, you know, sometimes being like, okay, she's fine. You don't need to worry about it. like concentrating on what you're doing, she's absolutely fine. And as a general rule, I think if your dog feels that you're okay, because they feel a lot more than we do, I think they'll be perfectly fine. So that's the one point where I learned a lot. Now, touch wood, I never had any situation where... I think a lot about it, you know, being... I'm sure we all do, you know, as pilots, we think a lot about what if something would happen. So overflying... Bobber Walter, for example, when I fly with her, she has a life jacket, very much like I do. I've done research for hypothermia for her. What would I do in case something happens? So it's all laid out in my head. But what's complicated there is that there's no guidance for dogs. You go on the CAA website and you have a look at ditching, for example. There's a lot of guidance and a lot of things that can help you think about and plan for. But for dogs, there's not a lot. Things like, how am I going I get her out of the plane. You know, all these little bits. So that's all things I have to think about. And I've got my own plans. I don't know whether that will work best, but at least, you know, I gave

SPEAKER_03: 31:03

it a thought. You have a plan,

SPEAKER_05: 31:04

yes. I've got a plan.

SPEAKER_03: 31:07

You mentioned the life jacket for her. Is that a special life jacket for dogs?

SPEAKER_05: 31:12

Yes. Well, it's just a life jacket for dogs now. Leeloo hates the water. So I wanted to try it in a swimming pool or something. It's see how she floats but she hates it so i was like right that's probably a bit too far so you've got one just in case you know like in the very unlikely event with wood we would ditch in the water at least she could float for a bit i can float with my life jacket and we can go from there but it's it's i don't know it's just that i have to wear it if i've got passengers with me they have to wear it and that's well according to where you fly so i thought well she's a dog she might as well wear it and you know it's probably extra but that will probably help me out if something happens i You

SPEAKER_03: 31:52

mentioned at the beginning of this conversation on the quickfire round of questions that you planned for an emergency landing with your dog in mind. Can you talk a bit more about that moment?

SPEAKER_05: 32:08

Well, the first thing is that obviously if you're going to crash, you want to be secured. So you want her to be secure very much like you want to be secured. I've done a lot of reading about accident reports or incident reports of people ditching. Funnily enough, a lot of people in the past have elected to remove the acid belts because they were worried they would get trapped in the airplane should something get distorted. But actually, a lot of them lost consciousness and they were lucky that someone else was there to pull them out. The reason I'm saying that is because you want to be secure and I want you to be secure in case, you know, like the shock is quite big. Now, you know, it's something very unlikely again, but I did give it a thought. And what I want to be able to be doing is extract Lilo with me as quick as possible from the airplane and then try and survive as best as we can. So we are lucky in the series to have the parachute. So I think that offsets quite a lot of the problems. And I'm sure many serious pilots are and I will think the same. Now, I don't know, you know, I've watched, as I'm sure you've also watched all the videos about Sirius crashing with their parachute and stuff, but you'd hope that it would give you a bit more chance to teach. Yes, indeed. So I'm hoping that from there we'll have a bit of time to evacuate with Leeloo. But my plan is she's very secure on her seat and I've got the lead. So the lead is always there. So during the cruise or face the flights where you know there's there's plenty of time i can remove the lead from her in case you know she lays on her or she lays on the lead so because it might be a bit annoying for her but during takeoff and landing i've always got the lead next to me and strapped into a collar or something so i can quickly get her out if you need to be if that makes sense yes so so that's one of the thing i've thought about um now in term of of of planning is just basic knowledge, very much like you'd have a passenger with you that's not really aware of what he needs to do. What you want to be doing is evacuate as quick as you can. And I'm sure Lili would be pretty good at this. She'd probably actually be better than me.

SPEAKER_03: 34:30

So it's not much difference of planning the same situation with a small child, basically. It's quite similar, except the lead. We don't have a lead for a small child. Well, I don't know. Some people

SPEAKER_05: 34:41

have leads for their kids.

SPEAKER_03: 34:42

Some do, yes. But it's quite similar, isn't it? It's a small being.

SPEAKER_05: 34:50

I think it's quite similar. I don't have any kids, so I can't really say. I think it's quite similar because I've got no experience with kids. I've been flying with my little brother when he was five or six, but it was more managing him, trying to touch everything. And to be honest with you, Fernando, I think people might say, oh, is that safe flying with your dog? But I think it's actually safer flying with Lilo than flying with your little brother or your cousin or something. Or someone that's young and that wants to be touching everything because you have to manage them

SPEAKER_03: 35:19

yeah and if someone doesn't believe in that i really recommend for them to visit your instagram account and watch your videos and i will place a link in our episode notes so our listeners can find it very quickly so going back to the emergency plan so you did plan for an emergency but it actually never happened correct

SPEAKER_05: 35:39

no

SPEAKER_03: 35:39

yeah very good i just wanted to be clear to clear about that no no know

SPEAKER_05: 35:45

absolutely

SPEAKER_03: 35:46

so for our listeners at home if they have a dog and they are now considering taking their dog on their plane is there any particular quality that you think a dog should have to be able to fly in the cockpit

SPEAKER_05: 37:07

certainly being calm being able I don't know some dogs might be sick I don't know you know I've heard dogs being sick in a car so let alone in a plane I'm not really sure But again, a friend of mine flies on the Cirrus as well. He's got a Beagle, a Beagle, sorry. That's quite full on, I should say. And what he's told me is that the Beagle, once the Beagle is in the plane, the Beagle just calms down and he's got his little headset. And I think, I think if anything, the Beagle is probably not really confortable flying. You know, it's probably a bit scary for the Beagle. so that's probably why that's calming him down so you want to be careful of that because you don't want your dog to be terrified I'm not a vet so I can't tell you but my experience I know my dog I think feeling her heart rate see if she's okay you know like if she's punting or anything if she's accepting treats that's a good sign I think I can see when she's terrified going to the vet but she's not terrified going into the aeroplane so yeah Yeah, I think being calm and...

SPEAKER_03: 38:24

Temperament is basically the main aspect to look to because a dog like Lilou is perfectly able to fly beside you as a pilot. Maybe a more anxious dog might need to fly on the backseat with someone by their side.

SPEAKER_04: 38:41

Yeah, possibly.

SPEAKER_03: 38:44

And there's always the option of flying the dog on the luggage compartment which is a bit more secure in terms of separation between passengers, pilot and the dog so I think there are a few options and I think the temperament ultimately will probably dictate where the dog is sitting on the plane

SPEAKER_05: 39:02

Yeah, absolutely. I know some people fly their dogs in cages, so they would have a cage. Again, if your dog is wild and is not going to be able to behave, I was about to say, it's like a kid, but you wouldn't put a kid in a cage. Yes, not a good idea. These people that fly in the US for rescue, obviously they're rescue dogs, so it's very different, but they fly on pipers and all sorts. I've seen pictures on their Instagram where they've If they've got puppies, they have the puppies on their laps. There's no legal requirements yet in general aviation that says you can't do that or that. It's just, as we mentioned, it's just basic knowledge, basic safety. Is it going to interfere with the flight controls? Is it going to touch anything? Yes or no. And managing your, again, your... your own personal, how can I describe this, your, as a pilot, you know, your capacity to being able to be distracted or not by the animal. That's something very important. And being self-aware about, because you've got very much like a child or a family member, you'd have, you know, if you started hunting on board or having, you know, like a failure, of course, I would be deeply affected and I would want to land ASAP. But again, you'd have to think, okay, we need to land, but let's calm down and do things properly and land safely. So

SPEAKER_03: 40:35

you are very conscious about the safety. You've thought through the whole plan. You have emergency equipment, especially designed for your dog. You have a plan in your head. You reviewed it several times. Let's not talk about the enjoyment side or the perks. Let's talk about the perks of taking a with you when I watch the videos she seems fairly calm but from your point of view what do you think is going on is she actually enjoying it or is she simply a very patient traveller

SPEAKER_05: 41:10

well Fernando I wish I had this answer because I'm always when people say to me oh is she enjoying it you know I don't know is she enjoying being in the plane I'm not really sure what I can tell you for sure is that we are both enjoying being together all the time and that's where the perks are being able to travel together, going to places in an easier fashion, if that makes sense. If you're saying flying with your dog just to go flying, I'd probably say, well, is the dog going to enjoy it? I'm not sure the dog is realizing much of what's going on, but it's more being with your dog all the time. So I don't think she'd dislike it because otherwise I wouldn't fly with her. I think it's just like traveling in a car. and you know I think she's just happy to be with you and the perks are being able to travel to places as I said I don't I'm on my own with Lilo so if I go away you know she can't come with me so I've already I'm not going away you know as I don't go abroad or anything apart from for work obviously but when I'm at home it's constantly with Lilo so I mentioned about going to Corsica for example now my parents live there so I wanted to go this summer and I would never put Lilou in the hold of a big aeroplane that could be an interesting subject but what I've seen at work I would never do that I would never do that but again it's a choice depends on the dog if your dog is happy doing it absolutely fine and great but so going to Corsica I looked at how would I take Lilou and basically I would have her to drive all the way to the south of France take another night fare It's quite costly, funnily enough. Obviously, the plane costs more money, but you'd be surprised that it's not actually that much compared to what you'd have to pay with all the boats you get and everything. And you would have to go in a kennel in the boat, in the ferry going to Corsica. So that's one of the perks, I'd say, being able to bring your dog anywhere. And this is where I wanted to start this charity of relocating dogs, or if someone needed their dog to be moved somewhere, you know, being able to help with that. Now, it's still in the process, but regulation is quite complicated. I

SPEAKER_03: 43:38

was going to touch that later, but let's talk about that now. If you are, and correct me if I'm wrong, if you are flying within the EU, you only need to carry a pet passport if you are leaving the country. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_05: 43:51

That is right, yes. So, within Europe, so I'm planning this trip to Switzerland for September so I'm looking into this because I think they've got Switzerland has slightly different rules but you can go freely with your dog that's not a problem or your dog needs a passport and there's no need to have it worked or anything because it's within Europe so that's very easy

SPEAKER_03: 44:15

very easy things get a bit more complicated for flights that involve flying to and from the UK is that correct

SPEAKER_05: 44:24

that's right that's very complicated So I'm not an expert in this. I've looked at the rules and regulations, but yes, flying into the UK is more complicated because the short of it is that it's not so much about what type of airplane you need, but from what I gather, but again, it's very specific rules. So, you know, correct me if I'm wrong or do your

SPEAKER_03: 44:48

research. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Before the flight. Yes.

SPEAKER_05: 44:54

That's right. But from what I get, you need an AOC to be able to fly you know in the UK with a dog so you need a proper airline it needs to be properly set up you need approved routes as well so it can't be any routes so every route has to be approved funny enough I flew with a colleague the other day she was flying private jets before and she flew in the UK with dogs so she was really well aware about all these issues and she was still in touch it's a small private airline they've got an AOC and I've been in touch with their operation if you want and yeah that's what he's explained to me he said yes you need every route every airport you're going to need an approval you need your AOC so it is very complicated sadly there's a way around it because there's a special link between Ireland which is Europe if that makes sense in the UK but that's about it and even then

SPEAKER_03: 45:46

yes so as I understand as of today and we are recording this in June 2025 yes the understanding is that it is possible to fly from the to a Republic of Ireland and vice versa. And then from the Republic of Ireland, it is possible to fly into the UK. So that would be a way to fly with a dog. But again, this is subject to interpretation. It's not very clear, although I have some communications with DEFRA that confirms that not every airfield has the same interpretation of the rules. So again, as you said, flying between between the EU and UK can be complex. But once you are in the EU, it's fairly straightforward. And if you are flying within your own country, wherever you are listening to this episode, it should be fairly straightforward.

SPEAKER_05: 46:42

Absolutely. Absolutely. And going back onto the islands, because there's so specific rules and because, you know, if someone said to you, I'm coming in my little plane, you know, even the the people involved with that, they don't see that every day. So most people will cover themselves saying, oh no, you can't do that, you can't do that. But as you said, with Ireland, my understanding again, just double check that because it might change, is that you can fly because that's the only route between Republic of Ireland and the UK. You can fly forth and back with your dog, providing you've got all the paperwork, of course. But if you wanted to go straight for from, I don't know, let's say Germany to the UK, that's when you would need an AOC or an approved route or something. But again, that might change. However, flying from the UK to France or to Germany, my understanding is that that's not a problem. You can fly out, but it's just coming back in would be the issue. So, I mean, I can keep your dog if you want to bring your dog. That's not a problem. And surely you would be very happy to have a friend, but you might want to take your dog back as well.

SPEAKER_03: 47:54

Indeed. What's the most rewarding aspect of sharing your passion for flying and to go to places with with lilu

SPEAKER_05: 48:04

i think the most rewarding aspect is to combine the love with your animal which which to me is probably the strongest love i felt in my life and your passion so being able to combine both um is when sometime i'm in the air with lilu and we're going to a nice place you know like on the beach or something thing. And I just say to myself, You know, I just come to the realization how lucky I am to be here today doing that with her. And, you know, I know I'm just grateful that I'm able to be doing that. And when I started flying, that was an absolute joy. But if someone had told me, you know, in 15 years time or so, you'd have a dog that you adore and that you've got such a strong bond with your dog. But on top of that, you'll be doing your passion with your dog. I would have been like, wow. That's quite something.

SPEAKER_03: 49:02

I must say, again, I'm sorry, I'm going to repeat myself. It's truly inspiring and beautiful, the images and videos you post on Instagram. And there was no way I could go without talking to you. In fact, I remember when I contacted you for the first time, my pretendant was my dog texting Lulu. It was quite funny. Yeah, I remember

SPEAKER_05: 49:23

that. Well, yeah, I must say I've never been, you know, a big social media person. but I a lot of my friends said oh you should share that on Instagram you should share and you always want to be careful in aviation what you share and you know what it's like people will come and come to you and say something you haven't always always or something so you want to be careful but but yeah I started sharing a few a few videos with her and that that picked up a bit and I was lucky to meet people talk to different people and and that's quite good most of it is as you said is to inspire people to be doing it with their dogs. And, and I think, you know, I, I'm a great believer that if you've got a dog, you know, it's to, it's to spend your life with it, not, not leave your dog at home or anything, you know, like it's just, I think for me, a dog is, is, is part of the family. So, so if that can inspire a bit more people, like you said, you know, you said initially, oh, you thought about flying with your dog, but you're not really sure. Um, but if, you know, if just looking at that page or listening to this podcast, a few people, a few people more extra can fly with their dogs, then I'll be happy. And I'm sure every dog as well would be very happy to be with their owners.

SPEAKER_03: 50:37

So Antoine, what's next for you and Lilou? And what's your next aerial adventure on the horizon? I think you mentioned already you're flying to Corsica.

SPEAKER_05: 50:48

Yeah, that's right. And then I'm hoping to do all of Switzerland with Australia, back from Italy and seeing the Mont Blanc in France. And then back, that's one of the big trip we want to be well I'd like to be doing hopefully Louis is happy with it and what I like doing on these trips is that we stop as well so you know I'd fly to one place we stop two or three days and we go for nice walks in the mountains or on the beach so yeah that's like a little holiday if that makes sense

SPEAKER_03: 51:17

you recently did a tour in Scotland

SPEAKER_05: 51:20

yeah that's right so we went all the way to Scotland so that was obviously was the great weather that we had that was absolutely fantastic and we flew all the way to Orkney and all the way back down so that was great so yeah it was over 10 days we stayed in different places we did short flights you know and stayed two or three nights in different places have nice walks and that was great that was that was really good all I'm going to say is obviously tiring just like a human it's a bit tiring so so try and try and not try and you know don't try and want to do too much just do little flights and then your dog will be happy and so will you I think

SPEAKER_03: 51:58

Antoine Gallet and Lilou Thank you very much for inspiring us all.

SPEAKER_05: 52:03

Thank you very much for having us, Fernando. And it was great to be on your show.

SPEAKER_02: 52:13

If you haven't already, do check out Antoine and Lulu's Instagram account. The link is in our episode notes. Their videos and photos are just stunning. Well, that brings us to the end of this episode of The Pilot's Logbook. I hope you've enjoyed it. You can find links to everything we mentioned over at thepilotslogbookpodcast.com. That's also where you can subscribe and find details on how to support the show. From both of us, have a fantastic summer of flying.

SPEAKER_03: 52:41

Absolutely. And speaking of summer, I'm actually going to be in Little Cay for all of August. If you happen to fly in, please get in touch. I would love to offer you a coffee. You can text me using the option available in the episode notes.

SPEAKER_02: 52:56

And if you're thinking of making the trip, we can even help with your planning.

SPEAKER_03: 52:59

That's right, it's one of our favourite destinations. We put together a free guide on visiting Little Cay which you can find on our website. Or you can go back and listen to episode 8 where we cover it all.

SPEAKER_02: 53:12

It's a great resource. All right, that's it from us. Until next time, happy flying.